[identity profile] binahboy.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] greatpoetry
Bit like pop lyrics , but comes in handy during early days of courting. ;)

You’re beautiful

because you’re classically trained
I’m ugly because I associate piano wire with strangulation

You’re beautiful

because you stop to read the cards in newsagents’ windows
about lost cats and missing dogs.
I’m ugly because of what I did to that jellyfish
with a lolly-stick and a big stone.

You're beautiful because for you, politeness is instinctive, not a marketing
campaign.
I’m ugly because desperation is impossible to hide.

Ugly like he is,
Beautiful like hers,
Beautiful like Venus,
Ugly like his,
Beautiful like she is,
Ugly like Mars.

You’re beautiful because you believe in coincidence and the power of thought.
I’m ugly because I proved God to be a mathematical impossibility.

You’re beautiful because you prefer homemade soup to the packet stuff.
I’m ugly because once, at a dinner party,
I defended the aristocracy and wasn’t even drunk.

You’re beautiful because you can’t work the remote control.
I’m ugly because of satellite television and twenty-four hour rolling news.

Ugly like he is,
Beautiful like hers,
Beautiful like Venus,
Ugly like his,
Beautiful like she is,
Ugly like Mars.

You’re beautiful because you cry at weddings as well as funerals.
I’m ugly because I think of children as another species from a different world.

You're beautiful because you look great in any colour including red.
I’m ugly because I think shopping is strictly for the acquisition of material goods.


You’re beautiful because when you were born, undiscovered planets
lined up to peep over the rim of your cradle and lay gifts of gravity and light
at your miniature feet.


I’m ugly for saying “love at first sight” is another form of mistaken identity,
and that the most human of all the responses is to gloat.

Ugly like he is,
Beautiful like hers,
Beautiful like Venus,
Ugly like his,
Beautiful like she is,
Ugly like Mars.

You’re beautiful because you’ve never seen inside of a car wash.
I’m ugly because I always ask for a receipt

You’re beautiful for sending a box of shoes to the third World
I’m ugly because I remember the telephone numbers of my ex-girlfriends
and the year Schubert was born


You’re beautiful because you sponsored a parrot in a zoo.
I’m ugly because when I sigh it’s like a slow collapse of a circus tent.

Ugly like he is,
Beautiful like hers,
Beautiful like Venus,
Ugly like his,
Beautiful like she is,
Ugly like Mars.




You’re beautiful because you can point at a man in a uniform and laugh.
I am ugly because I was a police informer in my own previous life



You’re beautiful because you drink a litre of water and eat three pieces of fruit a day.
I’m ugly for taking the line that a meal without meat is a beautiful woman with
one eye.

You’re beautiful because you don’t see love as a competition and you know how
To lose.
I’m ugly because I kissed the FA cup and the held it up to the crowd.

You’re beautiful because of the single buttercup in the top buttonhole of your cardigan
I’m ugly because I said the world’s strongest woman is a muscle man in a
Dress.


You’re beautiful because you couldn’t live in a lighthouse.
I’m ugly for making hand shadows in front of the giant bulb, so when they look up, the captains of vessels in distress see the ears of rabbit, eye of a fox and the legs of a galloping black horse.

Ugly like he is,
Beautiful like hers,
Beautiful like Venus,
Ugly like his,
Beautiful like she is,
Ugly like Mars.


Ugly like he is,
Beautiful like hers,
Beautiful like Venus,
Ugly like his,
Beautiful like she is,
Ugly like Mars.



~Simon Armitage

Date: 2007-06-13 06:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladyjeanetta.livejournal.com
Really interesting poem... I'm not sure I liked the "chorus" but this bit was just lovely:

"You’re beautiful because when you were born, undiscovered planets
lined up to peep over the rim of your cradle and lay gifts of gravity and light
at your miniature feet."

Thanks for sharing!

Date: 2007-06-13 08:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unearthingbone.livejournal.com
Sigh, I really wanted to like this poem because it's Simon Armitage and I loved "The Shout" amongst other bits and pieces of his work -- but he appears to have lost his mind here, or to have been overtaken by 'NSYNC while he was writing this. There are beautiful lines in here, like "You’re beautiful because of the single buttercup in the top buttonhole of your cardigan," and this part:


You’re beautiful because you’ve never seen inside of a car wash.
I’m ugly because I always ask for a receipt

You’re beautiful for sending a box of shoes to the third World
I’m ugly because I remember the telephone numbers of my ex-girlfriends
and the year Schubert was born


but by and large, I'm sadly not sold. The chorus is too icky to even really comment on -- it reminds me of a chant the witches in Macbeth should be saying around their cauldron -- and I don't really buy the concepts of what is ugly versus what is beautiful here because there's no consistent theme to them. Sometimes, the "ugly" example is decidedly more beautiful than the "beautiful" example (which I suppose is Armitage making a social comment), but there's no rhyme or reason to it so it doesn't work for me.

Date: 2007-06-14 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kleios-kiss.livejournal.com
I am told that Simon is highlighting the fragmented post- modernism of beauty and non beauty (not necessarily ugly) alike.

Interesting, care to elaborate?

And I'll dislike the poem a bit less if I understand that it's purposefully mocking, or at least highlighting , our current ideas of gendered-traits and its intersection with beauty, and our current means of taking in information. If this poem is not so much a "poem" as it is social commentary...well then, that's a bit better.

Date: 2007-06-14 04:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kleios-kiss.livejournal.com
Actually...
This poem got quite a reaction from me. I saw it as a celebration of all the ideas that I so highly dislike, such as the inequalities present in our current gender system, and our culture infantilization of women and the link we've created between that and "beauty," the limiting constraints of social expectations on men's expression of certain humanistic traits, and so on. Plus the actual structure of the poem- the ugly and commercial fragmentation, the reduction of the poem to "sound-bite" status, the unnecessary "chorus"... All of this taken together, along with the strong reaction it produced here, is actually highly effective as a sort of social commentary, or political poem. So if that was his intention (I've unfortunately never heard of him before), then I'd have to say that it was pretty brilliant.

Oh, and I posted below obviously before reading what you wrote up here, so I was still stuck on what I disliked about it.

Date: 2007-06-16 10:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thewickedtongue.livejournal.com
^ I think you're great and I love you.

Date: 2007-06-13 08:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kleios-kiss.livejournal.com
From a feminist perspective, I highly dislike it.

"OMGzzz women are liiike, so delicate, childish, pretty, innocent, fragile and kind and I'm a big clumsy mean logical man! I'm going to go worship the pretty little thing now, and bemoan my mathematical man-mind."


Date: 2007-06-14 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rajmahall.livejournal.com
the poem could have been narrated by a woman

Yeah, but it's not.

Date: 2007-06-14 04:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kleios-kiss.livejournal.com
the poem could have been narrated by a woman

It doesn't matter which sex wrote the poem, it's the sentiments of the poem. It's not expressing love for a person, it's objectification at its best. It's the worship of a whole slew of stereotypes, essentially delegating the scientific/worldly/logical role to the man, and the fresh/innocent/kindly role to the woman, and then worshiping that bundle of stereotypes. Of course we know people who "don't fit the stereotype," and that's exactly my point- we're all individuals. "Gender" is a faulty concept in itself, and is, at the very least, not something that's static and inherent to individuals, but a set of reactions to social expectations. But that's another story :P

If you want a poem that I consider really right on, romantic, and with considerable depth and understanding, check out No more Cliches (http://www.panhala.net/Archive/No_More_Cliches.html), by Octavio Paz.

(PS- none of this is meant as an attack on you, I hope you know and I'm sure you're awesome. You do dig poetry, and no one who digs poetry can be that bad :) It's just my issues with the poet)

Date: 2007-06-14 08:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pachamama.livejournal.com
Surely you don't think he meant this to be taken at face value? He's far more intelligent than that. The poem is playing with the gender stereotypes.

Date: 2007-06-13 08:52 pm (UTC)
ext_18392: Bodie and Doyle from the Professionals, standing unnecessarily close together. In suits. (insensibility)
From: [identity profile] tears-of-nienna.livejournal.com
I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but about halfway in I gave up. I completely agree with you. Some of the lines are nice, but the blatant gender stereotyping--of both sides--completely outweighs that.

Plus, I think it would be beautiful to be able to live in a lighthouse (http://www.xckd.com/c59.html).

Date: 2007-06-13 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] teriden.livejournal.com
Hee, I was thinking of that page too.

It seems rather a "I'm pessimistic and jaded, you're soft-hearted and naive, let me put you on this pedestal and worship you" kind of love-- which does tend to pair with traditional gender roles. Still has some nice lines, though. =)

I'm new here, hi.

Date: 2007-06-14 04:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kleios-kiss.livejournal.com
Omg. That site is great. I think now I'm also going to have to live in a lighthouse after college!

Date: 2007-06-14 05:54 am (UTC)
ext_18392: Bodie and Doyle from the Professionals, standing unnecessarily close together. In suits. (Default)
From: [identity profile] tears-of-nienna.livejournal.com
XCKD (or XKCD--the webpage and the header don't match XD) is amazing. It's one of my very favorite webcomics.

I'm actually going to grad school. Can I visit your lighthouse? ;)

Date: 2007-06-14 08:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pachamama.livejournal.com
But he doesn't mean this to taken at face value! He is playing with the gender stereotypes about love quite consciously.

Date: 2007-06-14 07:12 pm (UTC)
ext_18392: Bodie and Doyle from the Professionals, standing unnecessarily close together. In suits. (insensibility)
From: [identity profile] tears-of-nienna.livejournal.com
Then I don't feel like he's doing it very well. ;)

Maybe it comes across better in performance, but it sounds really sexist on paper, authorial intent be damned.

Date: 2007-06-14 01:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pimmers.livejournal.com
That's exactly how I felt too. I find the infantilization ( You’re beautiful because you can’t work the remote control....like, SERIOUSLY?) of his object of affection really condescending. He is all world-weary, but alas, woman, her innocence and her naivete...so poetic!

Date: 2007-06-14 01:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aria-muse.livejournal.com
I'd like to see this peformed.

Date: 2007-06-14 08:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pachamama.livejournal.com
I have, and it is a MUCH stronger poem in performance than on the page.

Date: 2007-06-14 02:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] postscrypt.livejournal.com
it reminded me of this quote (http://community.livejournal.com/literaryquotes/3619981.html) quite a bit.

Date: 2007-06-14 03:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] applegnat.livejournal.com
I really hope he was joking, because if he wasn't he's just been booted off my favourite poets list.

Date: 2007-06-14 08:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pachamama.livejournal.com
oh he is definitely joking, or rather playing around with the gender stereotypes to do with love, quite consciously.

Date: 2007-06-14 08:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] applegnat.livejournal.com
Still found it a little too devoid of disavowal to be comfortable with it - is this supposed to broaden my horizons, maybe? :)

Date: 2007-06-14 08:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pachamama.livejournal.com
Interesting -- I had never read this on the page before, but heard Simon perform it last year. Performed, it is a much stronger poem than on the page, and the "chorus" actually works. On the page it seems much weaker.

Date: 2007-06-16 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haitianheromg.livejournal.com
I like the general theme. Not a fan of the chorus neither. But there were some interesting stanzas. Definitely didn't sell the poem to me all the way through, unfortunatley.

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