IF - Rudyard Kipling

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

If

If you can keep your head when all about you 
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you; 
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, 
But make allowance for their doubting too; 
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, 
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies, 
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating, 
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master; 
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim; 
If you can meet with triumph and disaster 
And treat those two imposters just the same; 
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken 
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, 
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken, 
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings 
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, 
And lose, and start again at your beginnings 
And never breath a word about your loss; 
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew 
To serve your turn long after they are gone, 
And so hold on when there is nothing in you 
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on !";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, 
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch; 
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you; 
If all men count with you, but none too much; 
If you can fill the unforgiving minute 
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run - 
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, 
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

Comments

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

No matter how many times I see this poem, it never gets old.

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

That's the power of ideas.
Some people (like Kipling), have a way of talking about life, and the words they use impact deep - because they are true.

Life has a way of changing and shaping us, and now that I am no longer a child, I find that poems are much more now than I thought when I first encountered them. They didn't change, but my attitude, and my understanding of the world did.

[nverland]

One of my absolute favorites

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

This poem spoke to me when i read it.
Didn't realize how deeply (then), it speaks to others.

[kaishin108.livejournal.com]

What a wonderful read, thanks for posting!

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

You're welcome.
Thanks for dropping a note.

[lonely-hour.livejournal.com]

I can't think about this poem without remembering...

If, by Mses Kipling:


If you can keep your figure when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when Grazia doubts you,
But make allowance for their wishes too;
If you can diet, and yield to their berating,
Or, when baking cupcakes, not eat a single one,
And, love being single, but wish that you were dating,
And yet don’t look too good, or be having too much fun;

If you can dream – but dream a smaller dress size;
If you can be too thin and yet too fat;
If in the middle they do meet, then they’re not good thighs
You should be aiming for a gap;
If you can work, but not make work your master,
be both mother and au-pair,
if you can bake, sew, solder and replaster,
while ensuring you’re all trimmed ‘down there’;

If you can have a painless natural birth,
breastfeed your child, and be the perfect mother,
And regain your figure, maintain your sense of worth,
And yet feel worthless, with your belly undercover;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To the waxing salon once or twice a week,
And find the perfect man to put it in you
yet retain that feminine mystique;

If you can look like a hooker yet keep your virtue,
Or dress in Prada –but not lose the common touch;
If neither feminists nor other women can hurt you;
If all men want to shag you, but none too much;
If you can down a cocktail in a minute
and after six repress the need to hurl-
Yours is the Daily Mail and everything that’s in it,
But - which is more –they’ve got you where they want you, girl.

[delia-deville.livejournal.com]

Ha, yes.

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing that poem.

I like the line "Maintain your sense of worth",
cause it seems to me too few people know that what we see in ourselves may influence the perception of others.
And, sometimes, when we value ourselves, we can continue going on, no matter what the world throws at us.

To me this poem is saying,
Don't give up on your dreams!
It's okay to be different,
To stand out!
For the world wants to put you in a box
But the box stifles you, and hides the important stuff.

Don't let others influence (negatively)
your life.
Go ahead, girl, dress the way you want.
Woman, you are sexy!
Don't forget, you are more than a homewife
You are more than a housekeeper
Who said being a mother is nothing?
Being a mother is everything!
Females, go ahead, and rule!
Rule from the sidelines.
Find a man who will support you!

Don't repress, let go of the pain.
Take hold of God's hand,
For he wants to share his plan with you.

[lonely-hour.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, um, that take on the poem is more a satirical work of the original poem if anything. More a feminist reply to such poems which aggrandize male humans and all these "masculine" attributes and their "inheriting the earth" -what about women? What is their lot? (And why should a woman rule from the sidelines? why can't they own the field? Why should a woman need to find a man for support?)

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

After rereading the poem you chose and what I wrote, yeah I did do a satire response.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Course not everything we read is to be taken at face value. That might have been what I did - seeing the words and going for a different interpretation than what you and the author who wrote it wanted.

I agree that sometimes these gender sterotypes should be abolished, but some things just cannot be changed.
I do not think it is the women looking for a man to support - I think it is a man looking for a woman to complete him, a mate who will encourage him and help him. Very few guys know how to ask (when they are even WILLING to ask), and taking the 'back seat' never occurs to them.
Women are important. Without them, life as we know it wouldn't exist. The human species wouldn't be around without them. But there are cultural and social roles that prohibit most females from doing the 'man's work - and sometimes its the simple fact women aren't as strong (this is a biological fact. Thanks a lot!, testosterone and estrogen, and progesterone and all the other naturally produced hormones!)

[lonely-hour.livejournal.com]

actually...in Africa, division of labour has been assessed to be fairly unrelated to gender, except in times of child birth. The biological fact of women's "weakness" (and we only call women "weaker" when the standard of human strength is still tied strongly to the ideology of masculinity/masculine strength as what "strength" is) hardly legitimates the cultural and social roles that have prohibited women from doing the "man's" work. Especially if we look at all the positions that actually require brute bodily strength. In the past Western women were prevented from higher education under the exact same claim that women aren't as strong (in body and thus it followed, for them, in mind also). Anyways, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to start some debate by posting that poem but just as a consideration...

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

Don't worry.

I don't consider this a debate because we are both trying to see where the other is coming from and are willing to listen.
Actually, by that definition, this might be a debate, but considering the only real 'example' of live debates I have is from politicians on television (and this is a campaign year), I might not have the best idea of what a proper form is.

Thanks for sharing tidbits from around the world about how they view women, and where current culture and social thinking might have gotten their ideas about subverting women. It's illuminating, to say the least.

Thank you for sharing the poem you chose. I'll admit, I've not had much exposure to strong feministic movements, but I'm not kept locked in chastity garments, nor expected to wear a veil over my face. I am allowed to be who I want to be, and have not had any gender pressures or gender expectations placed upon me from family or friends, so the idea of women being held in bondage is hard for me to wrap my head around.

I am willing to be open minded, and see no reason to flame someone just because their views are different.
Take care, Lonely Hour, and thanks for responding with your head.

[lonely-hour.livejournal.com]

Oh...it's not right to cite wearing the veil as if it oppressive in itself...some women actually find it liberating, that they are able to go beyond physicality in interaction (the West are always saying what is best for muslim women whilst muslim men do the same -what about the
woman's voice itself?).

Actually, i have been raised that way too! That is, i was not physically coerced, but i have no doubt, in this society and in my culture, i have been mentally cultivated to be a "woman". My subjectivity has been subject to the powers of society, and i cannot say i am free of them, and in the same way, i am constituted of them. And therefore, what can seem like "normal" is really what has been indoctrinated and shaped by. By no means normal, nor liberated nor equal.

Anyways, thank you for communicating and discussing, and likewise, responding rationally. You take care, too.

[painted-inwords.livejournal.com]

thank you.

[rose0mary.livejournal.com]

You're welcome.